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	<title>Comments on: Long Life Span for Solar Panels Equals Extra Low Cost</title>
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		<title>By: ECD Fan</title>
		<link>http://solar.calfinder.com/blog/solar-research/long-life-span-for-solar-panels-equals-extra-low-cost/comment-page-1/#comment-26314</link>
		<dc:creator>ECD Fan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 17:11:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://solar.calfinder.com/blog/?p=2232#comment-26314</guid>
		<description>Dan:

Yes, Dr. Ossenbrink is a recognized expert in PV module testing, but even experts make mistakes (as Climategate demonstrates).  Assessing module durability, reliability, and power degradation is a very complex subject.  For example, Dr. Ossenbrink wrote a paper in 2004 ( http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/solarec/publications/osaka_mqt12.pdf  ), showing 54% of new module types fail in initial qualification testing (How many modules have been manufactured for more than 10-years and have all the kinks worked out?).  But, of course, standard module qualification test results (including from accelerated testing) cannot be used to obtain or infer a product lifetime, as this NREL study demonstrates: http://www.nrel.gov/pv/performance_reliability/pdfs/osterwald_pip_review_2008.pdf

Here is an article that touches upon the difficulties in predicting service life for modules:

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2009/12/pv-durability-and-reliability-issues

So, yes, this subject is far from settled, and, yes, it has major implications for LCOE or ROI calculations for PV systems.

Finally, regarding whether new modules are better than the old, here is one more (disturbing) study by ASU:

http://www.pv-tech.org/images/uploads/pdfs_ed_1/PVI-04.pdf

The conclusion: &quot;The failure analysis of the qualification test results of ASU-PTL indicates a large increase in the failure rates for the 2005-2007 period as compared to the 1997-2005 period.&quot;

Here is an example of the risks: &quot;REC to Recall All of Its Solar Panels From 2008: Report:&quot;  http://www.greentechmedia.com/green-light/post/rec-to-recall-all-of-their-solar-panels-from-2008-report/

REC&#039;s customers are very lucky that REC is a reputable company that is still in business.  Because another company is suppressing the results from a long-term degradation study (which are indicating a likely violation of warranty) or various other system failure mechanisms, and has crafted a warranty language that allows them to blame module failure on insects (no kidding!).  Buyer beware!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan:</p>
<p>Yes, Dr. Ossenbrink is a recognized expert in PV module testing, but even experts make mistakes (as Climategate demonstrates).  Assessing module durability, reliability, and power degradation is a very complex subject.  For example, Dr. Ossenbrink wrote a paper in 2004 ( <a href="http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/solarec/publications/osaka_mqt12.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/solarec/publications/osaka_mqt12.pdf</a>  ), showing 54% of new module types fail in initial qualification testing (How many modules have been manufactured for more than 10-years and have all the kinks worked out?).  But, of course, standard module qualification test results (including from accelerated testing) cannot be used to obtain or infer a product lifetime, as this NREL study demonstrates: <a href="http://www.nrel.gov/pv/performance_reliability/pdfs/osterwald_pip_review_2008.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.nrel.gov/pv/performance_reliability/pdfs/osterwald_pip_review_2008.pdf</a></p>
<p>Here is an article that touches upon the difficulties in predicting service life for modules:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2009/12/pv-durability-and-reliability-issues" rel="nofollow">http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2009/12/pv-durability-and-reliability-issues</a></p>
<p>So, yes, this subject is far from settled, and, yes, it has major implications for LCOE or ROI calculations for PV systems.</p>
<p>Finally, regarding whether new modules are better than the old, here is one more (disturbing) study by ASU:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.pv-tech.org/images/uploads/pdfs_ed_1/PVI-04.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.pv-tech.org/images/uploads/pdfs_ed_1/PVI-04.pdf</a></p>
<p>The conclusion: &#8220;The failure analysis of the qualification test results of ASU-PTL indicates a large increase in the failure rates for the 2005-2007 period as compared to the 1997-2005 period.&#8221;</p>
<p>Here is an example of the risks: &#8220;REC to Recall All of Its Solar Panels From 2008: Report:&#8221;  <a href="http://www.greentechmedia.com/green-light/post/rec-to-recall-all-of-their-solar-panels-from-2008-report/" rel="nofollow">http://www.greentechmedia.com/green-light/post/rec-to-recall-all-of-their-solar-panels-from-2008-report/</a></p>
<p>REC&#8217;s customers are very lucky that REC is a reputable company that is still in business.  Because another company is suppressing the results from a long-term degradation study (which are indicating a likely violation of warranty) or various other system failure mechanisms, and has crafted a warranty language that allows them to blame module failure on insects (no kidding!).  Buyer beware!</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://solar.calfinder.com/blog/solar-research/long-life-span-for-solar-panels-equals-extra-low-cost/comment-page-1/#comment-26271</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 23:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://solar.calfinder.com/blog/?p=2232#comment-26271</guid>
		<description>ECD Fan, thanks for your response. You may be right, and it would appear that the study in question has yet to be published. The stats given in the BBC article were apparently the result of an interview with Dr. Ossenbrink and probably others at the EU Institute for Energy. You can choose to believe or not believe what Ossenbrink claims about the testing at the Institute, but if it helps with your perception of validity, Ossenbrink does work at one of the organizations cited in your links.

Secondly, there is an essential difference between the your studies and the assertions made by the Institute for Energy. Those studies examine panels that are now nearly 30 years old. The Energy Institute is taking new products - with whatever improvements 25 more years of research and development bring - and subjecting them to accelerated heat and weather simulations. It is an attempt to provide longevity testing for new panels rather than basing assumptions about today&#039;s products with statistics gathered for products manufactured in the 1980&#039;s. And even those panels only degraded roughly 5% over 20 years.

What do you think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ECD Fan, thanks for your response. You may be right, and it would appear that the study in question has yet to be published. The stats given in the BBC article were apparently the result of an interview with Dr. Ossenbrink and probably others at the EU Institute for Energy. You can choose to believe or not believe what Ossenbrink claims about the testing at the Institute, but if it helps with your perception of validity, Ossenbrink does work at one of the organizations cited in your links.</p>
<p>Secondly, there is an essential difference between the your studies and the assertions made by the Institute for Energy. Those studies examine panels that are now nearly 30 years old. The Energy Institute is taking new products &#8211; with whatever improvements 25 more years of research and development bring &#8211; and subjecting them to accelerated heat and weather simulations. It is an attempt to provide longevity testing for new panels rather than basing assumptions about today&#8217;s products with statistics gathered for products manufactured in the 1980&#8242;s. And even those panels only degraded roughly 5% over 20 years.</p>
<p>What do you think?</p>
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		<title>By: ECD Fan</title>
		<link>http://solar.calfinder.com/blog/solar-research/long-life-span-for-solar-panels-equals-extra-low-cost/comment-page-1/#comment-26260</link>
		<dc:creator>ECD Fan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 20:54:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://solar.calfinder.com/blog/?p=2232#comment-26260</guid>
		<description>Really?  90 percent of solar panels last for 30 years or longer?  Care to point to that study?  Clueless BBC articles don&#039;t count as studies.  Actual long-term studies have revealed that 1) module degradation and failure is not uncommon, even for crystalline modules, and 2) the companies that make PV modules do not last 20 years (ARCO Solar --&gt; Siemens --&gt; Shell --&gt; SolarWorld?):

http://www.isaac.supsi.ch/isaac/pubblicazioni/Fotovoltaico/Final%20Report/rapporto%20finale%20-%20progetto%20eu%205fp%20-%20mean%20time%20before%20failure%20(mtbf)%202003.pdf

http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/solarec/publications/osaka_lifetime.pdf

Thin-film module failure and degradation, of course, are much more common and much more severe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really?  90 percent of solar panels last for 30 years or longer?  Care to point to that study?  Clueless BBC articles don&#8217;t count as studies.  Actual long-term studies have revealed that 1) module degradation and failure is not uncommon, even for crystalline modules, and 2) the companies that make PV modules do not last 20 years (ARCO Solar &#8211;&gt; Siemens &#8211;&gt; Shell &#8211;&gt; SolarWorld?):</p>
<p><a href="http://www.isaac.supsi.ch/isaac/pubblicazioni/Fotovoltaico/Final%20Report/rapporto%20finale%20-%20progetto%20eu%205fp%20-%20mean%20time%20before%20failure%20(mtbf)%202003.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.isaac.supsi.ch/isaac/pubblicazioni/Fotovoltaico/Final%20Report/rapporto%20finale%20-%20progetto%20eu%205fp%20-%20mean%20time%20before%20failure%20(mtbf)%202003.pdf</a></p>
<p><a href="http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/solarec/publications/osaka_lifetime.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/solarec/publications/osaka_lifetime.pdf</a></p>
<p>Thin-film module failure and degradation, of course, are much more common and much more severe.</p>
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